Ian & Stuart's Australian Mac: Not for Sale/Another.not.for.sale (Australia).iso/hold me in your arms/Geertjan and Doctress/Geertjan and Doctress Neutopia

Text File | 1994-10-15 | 20KB | 477 lines

          Sunday, 9 October 1994 6:10:15 PM
          alt.cyberpunk Item
  From:           Doctress Neutopia <[e-mail]>,internet
  Subject:        Geertjan and Doctress Neutopia
  To:             alt.wedding,internet
                  alt.religion.sexuality,internet
                  alt.magick.sex,internet
                  alt.cyberpunk
                  alt.cyberspace,internet


From neutopia Sun Oct  2 14:07:05 1994
Subject: The Phenomenon
To: [e-mail] (Geertjan Wielenga)
Date: Sun, 2 Oct 1994 14:07:05 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Doctress Neutopia" <neutopia@titan>



Dear Geertjan,

     The purpose of this letter is to tell you how intensely I feel
for you.  For years, I have been studying the love phenomenona and have
been puzzled why I could not find it in my own life. I was beginning to
think that the Universe had forgotten about me and that my best bet was to
create a fictional lover. At times I tricked myself into believing it
was love, but there was never a sense of sharing *all* with these men.
I compromised my values to be "loved" by people who could not
understand or appreciate my thought.  With you I feel very different
as if we share the *core* of our being:  heart to heart, mind to mind,
pelvis to pelvis as our souls flow into the other.  Never before have
I realized how vitally important a revolutionary orgasm is or how many
thousands of miles we must overcome to reach that desired state.  But for
us, perhaps this orgasm is essential to our well-being and further growth.

     It is quite a miracle that this has happened to us.  There
are many layers to this miracle.  It has a historical component for
without the historical background of the people's struggle
for justice we would have never connected.  There is also the
scientific/technological component in that our love would have
not been found without the use of the computer. The miracle has a future
component in that it can not last without working towards creating a
loving world so that *all* can share in the collective wealth. The
chief time is the present which requires us to be committed to
making our future happen.

     Like eros, death is part of this great mystery. We really don't
know how long we have been struggling to make this miracle happen,
how many lifetimes we have worked to reach this point in our
evolutionary consciousness.  But I suspect we have been striving for this
since the beginning of Time.  In this age of cynicism and despair, love
seems like an impossibility.  Last night as I looked out into
the heavens at the Milky Way Galaxy, I would have been a fool to have
not believed in the miracle of our love and how far our love has and
will take us.




                                   You penetrate my soul,
                                   Doctress Neutopia


---------------------------------------------------------------------


Date: Tue, 04 Oct 1994 16:46:20 +0200
From: Geertjan Wielenga <[e-mail]>
Subject: Reply: Trip to Africa and Phenomenon
To: [e-mail]
Message-id: <[e-mail]>
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
X-Gateway: iGate, (WP Office) vers 2.01a - 1008
Status: OR

Hello.

Today I arrived back here from Johannesburg. I have a lot to tell
you about my trip - but I'll give you a summarised version:
Johannesburg is a sad sick place with sad sick people. It
consists of people madly running around in order to earn money so
that they may afford the "privilege" of madly running around.

I spent Sunday at Sun City [where the Lost City is found - the
venue of the last "Miss World" competition] which is a blatantly
capitalist resort centering around dozens and dozens and dozens
of slot machines. And there these sad sick people sit: With
maragerine tubs especially provided by the organisers so that
they can keep thier coins together, pulling the lever over and
over and over again - while smiling as if there is nothing more
fun and enjoyable than stuffing money into a machine! There is
also a fake beach - with sand and waves included. It looks pretty
real. Heaps of people getting cancer while lolling around in the
sand or in the water. What fun.

Monday I spent mostly in Hillbrow and Central Johannesburg -
messy, dirty, crime-infested and depressing. Tall buildings with
tiny people. Its as if all those people are tiny little cogs
which keep the machinery of capitalism going. Money is no more a
means to an end of relaxation, but it is clearly an end in
itself. Marx would've been quite excited to see his theoty of
alienation taking such a blatant form. But the more blatantly
people are separated from their products, the harder it is for
them to realise the fact.

Oh well - I'm sure there are many Johannesburgs all around the
world. The States must have its fair share, I think!

Yes - I love your logic [in this instance!]: The next step is for
us to phone each other. I don't have a phone readily available,
but I can be at one if we arrange a particular time. So, calling
me at a random unarranged time might be fruitless. What is *your*
phone number? Maybe I can try giving you a call. Hearing our
voices is obviously going to be a bit starnge - but if we accept
before the fact that we are going to be a bit surprised, then the
surprise will surely be less. If we anticipate surprise [and
there is no way that we can be absolutely correct in guessing
what each other's voices sound like] then the surprise will not
be so surprising [if that makes sense to you!].

My nickname is Jerry. If you prefer, you can call me that. Some
of my friends call be by my real name, some call me Jerry, and
others interchange the names. I'm quite cool about that - relax.
If we are meant to be together, then small things like names are
just irrelevant.

I now want to read your longer mails properly - I haven't had the
time to do that yet.

Intensely yours,
Geertjan
--------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Wed, 05 Oct 1994 08:14:40 +0200
From: Geertjan Wielenga <[e-mail]>
Subject: just a question
To: [e-mail]
Message-id: <[e-mail]>
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
X-Gateway: iGate, (WP Office) vers 2.01a - 1008
Status: OR

Hello Doctress

Every once in a while I receive a letter from some concerned
member of the cyberspace community asking: Are you aware that
your mail to Doctress Neutopia is being sent to a whole range of
newsgroups all around the Internet?

I don't normally respond to such mails, because we both believe
that love in general is a global phenomenon and that it shouldn't
be hidden from others - it should be shared so that love and
community and altruism [and etc.] can be maximized.

However, our relationship *is* getting more and more personal.
And as the personalization of our relationship increases, so more
and more people are wondering whether we intentionally are
sharing our correspondence with them [or by some kind of
accident]. In my opinion, the growing personalization of our
relationship means that our relationship is increasing in
importance on a global scale. Keeping love hidden means that one
is either ashamed of it or one wants to keep selfishly between
two people something which should be shared amongst many.

In other words, I think that now is more a time than any other
for us to share our correspondence with others. This conclusion
flows logically from our concern for a world-wide revolution [in
your terms - a lovolution].

What do you think?

With love
Geertjan

---------------------------------------------------------------


Date: Wed, 05 Oct 1994 10:22:17 +0200
From: Geertjan Wielenga <[e-mail]>
Subject: My logic troubles you? -Reply
To: [e-mail]
Message-id: <[e-mail]>
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
X-Gateway: iGate, (WP Office) vers 2.01a - 1008
Status: OR


No your logic doesn't trouble me - my rather frivolous reference
about your logic in the letter about Johannesburg was meant as a
joke. At the same time, however, I have commented perviously that
your thoughts tend to be emotional - and your response has been
that I need to be more emotional in my thinking. So perhaps I
cocentrate too much on logic and too little on emotion.

But your logic doesn't trouble me at all.

How are you?
---------------------------------------------------------------
From neutopia Wed Oct  5 06:02:08 1994
Subject: just missed each other :(
To: [e-mail] (Geertjan Wielenga)
Date: Wed, 5 Oct 1994 06:02:08 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Doctress Neutopia" <neutopia@titan>

Its almost 5:00am.  Another sleepless night because I was working on
my Soleri essay about arcologies.  Then Sameer from irc #leri called from
California. After that I started to write you a letter.  And now another
loving letter.

You will notice that in the other letter, I called you Jerry. But the
name I really want to be able to say is Geertjan.  To do this
successfully, I think it will take you whispering your name into my
ear about a thousand times as you kiss me and nibble on my ear lobe.
I think you should be aware that my real name is Doctress Neutopia.
The other name is the one my patriarchal capitalist parents gave me.
To call me Doctress is just fine.

Let me say that every man whom I have ever corresponded has been afraid
of public love, the thing that really makes me come alive!  So my heart
is filled with joy and liberation at your last letter about
publicizing our letters.  If anything can stop capitalism it is love,
the new social architecture of the new global culture!  Yes, I agree
with you that our relationship is growing more personal and so more
*potent* in creating global change.  Futurist Barbara Marx Hubbard
said at the last World Futurist General Assembly that what we need
is global intimacy.  Well, Geertjan, we have had that!  Next time when
we meet at our room in the Foothills, we should record it.  I believe
I can technologically do that by logging it in when we get there.  So
remind me to do that before I rip off your clothes!

Willow thinks that we can find a publisher for the letters.
We could call the book something like CYBORGASM.  I lost some of the
letters two or three weeks when my received folder crashed.  Have you been
saving our letters?  Hey, maybe our letters will save us!

Now about the phone call.

If I join MCI International Calling Circle (three dollars a
month) I can call you for lower rates during the hours of 11:00am to
1:59 ? Monday-Friday.  All day Sat and Sun for 64 cents a minute.
If we think that this call will be a one time deal and most of our
communication should be writing, then I should call you between
5pm to 5:59am.  Your time is seven hours ahead of me):
12:00am to 1:00pm SHIT, THIS IS TOO COMPLICATED FOR MY SIMPLETON BRAIN.
PHONES OUGHT TO BE FREE because communication is a HUMAN RIGHT!

Give me the number of the phone where you have access. The best
"deal" is the International Calling Circle.  Then we can arrange a time
when I can ring you there.

If you ever need to call me, my number is [phone]

Time to get away from the computer.  I think I will go watch
the beginning of the day at Puffers Pond which is a short walk from
here.  It is turning fall in New England.  The tree are starting
to become brilliant colors of red, orange, and yellow -- a beautiful time
to finally become alive!


                                  global love,
                                  Neutopia
---------------------------------------------------------------------

From neutopia Wed Oct  5 06:03:56 1994
Subject: Are you still online?
To: [e-mail] (Geertjan Wielenga)
Date: Wed, 5 Oct 1994 06:03:56 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Doctress Neutopia" <neutopia@titan>


Are you around now?
---------------------------------------------------------------------

From neutopia Wed Oct  5 23:16:46 1994
Subject: Re: Geertjan and Doctress Neutopia (fwd)
To: [e-mail]
Date: Wed, 5 Oct 1994 23:16:46 -0400 (EDT)

Dearest Geertjan,

       I received this kind letter about our love so I thought you
might enjoy reading it.  Hope you are having pleasant dreams!  Oh yes,
in  Cliff's first letter he asked me if *you* were a fictional
character.  Well, I do hope you are real.  Somedays I think you might
be a very smart bot especially since I haven't seen a picture of you
yet. My mind is starting to ache to see photo of you. Several people
have told me that I should look at the _Griffin & Saline_ book. I
think it has become a best seller.  The lovers in that story are
fictional.
                                           your heart and soul,
                                           Doctress Neutopia
------------------------------------------------------------------

Forwarded message:

> From [e-mail] Wed Oct  5 18:19:53 1994
> Date: Wed, 05 Oct 1994 18:19:41 -0400 (EDT)
> From: [e-mail] (Cliff Skalaski)
> Subject: Re: Geertjan and Doctress Neutopia
> In-reply-to: <[e-mail]> from


> >      Geertjan is a real life person.  I feel that it is a miracle
> > that we have grown to have the correspondence and have felt so much
> > love for each other.  In order to make our love happen in real life
> > we must overcome thousands of miles and find thousands of dollars
> > in order to do it.  But a least we have love on our side!
>
>   The odds the two of you have overcome ARE phenomeanal. May I wish you
> two the best of luck in this (and any other) world in overcoming what
> still lies before the two of you. You've already overcame the greatest
> challenge; the concept for the painting has been established, all that's
> left are brushstrokes.
>
>
> > I posted it in alt.feminism because our love is based on justice
> > and social values for the good of all people.  It is a political
> > love.  What is _Virtual Love_ about?
>
>   On the feminism part, I could severely go round and round about how the
> movement is totally self-defeatest...Destroying moral justice and social
> values through it's fighting fire with fire. They may win, but society
> will ultimately lose.
>   As for the book _Virtual Love_...It's a book about two sex therapists
> hold a correspondance over cyberspace which is at first formal, but ends
> up becoming anything but. It's rather a dry and unidealistic book; More
> of a psychological rather than romantic book...But still not bad.
>   I would suggest the other book (_Griffin and Sabine_), though, if you
> haven't read it already...It's kinda funny (Okay, coincidental would be a
> better word, but you get the meaning...) the way your situation almost
> mirrors the two in the book. <Besides that, it's an EXCELLENT book...
> well, collection of letters and postcards, but that's neither here nor
> there...>
>   As I said before, good luck...
>
>
> --
>
> +--------------------------------------------------------------------------+
> |Cliff Skalaski                     |                                      |
> |  University of Pennsylvania       | "We come into this world alone --    |
> |     School of Engineering  (SEAS) |   and we leave the same way. The     |
> |                                   |   time we spend in between...time    |
> |  Center for Mental Health Policy  |   spent alive, sharing, learning...  |
> |    and Services Research          |   together...is all that makes life  |
> |      -- Data Manager              |   worth living..."                   |
> |                                   |                  -- Scott Lobdell    |
> +--------------------------------------------------------------------------+
> |         "...Mother, Should I build the Wall?..."   -- Pink Floyd         |
> +--------------------------------------------------------------------------+
>
---------------------------------------------------------------------


Date: Wed, 05 Oct 1994 19:32:42 +0200
From: Geertjan Wielenga <[e-mail]>
Subject: just missed each other :( -Reply
To: [e-mail]
Message-id: <[e-mail]>
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
X-Gateway: iGate, (WP Office) vers 2.01a - 1008
Status: OR

Dear Doctress

So how was the beginning of the day at Puffers Pond? I am *very*
glad that you seem to enjoy *being*. I am not sure whether we
have talked about this before - the enjoyment of being.

For me, good company is someone who just wants to *be*. More
irritating than most other things is someone who just wants to
*do* or *talk* or whatever. Silences between people can be
wonderful - except with people who get uncomfortable in silences
and who need constantly to be covering up their
self-consciousness.


Sometimes I just sit somewhere and look at people. Or at trees.
Or at the ceiling. Or out a window. And sometimes I just sit. I
have not found many people who are able to do that with someone
else. And I miss that. Very much.

Be well
Geertjan

PS. Regarding the telephone issue - as soon as you tell me when
you can phone me, I'll be able to tell you which phone number is
most convenient down here. I may just phone you myself - so be
prepared!
---------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Thu, 06 Oct 1994 09:00:14 +0200
From: Geertjan Wielenga <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Geertjan and Doctress Neutopia (fwd)
To: [e-mail]
Message-id: <[e-mail]>
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
X-Gateway: iGate, (WP Office) vers 2.01a - 1008
Status: OR

Doctress,

Yeah that letter was quite nice. And that's the great thing about
public love - the public can input into it because the
relationship is not behind closed doors. Its an expression of
universal desires and hopes, so universally the individual
experiences of others can contribute to the development and
growth of such public love. Obviously, the Internet is absolutely
the most ideal way to publicize such a relationship thus
facilitating the influence of "outsiders" [who are not genuinely
outside because the relationship takes on a global spectre].

Global love,
Geertjan
-------------------------------------------------------------

From neutopia Thu Oct  6 14:09:10 1994
Subject: Silence
To: [e-mail] (Geertjan Wielenga)
Date: Thu, 6 Oct 1994 14:09:10 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Doctress Neutopia" <neutopia@titan>


Geertjan,

      It seems that we are contemplative people and enjoy just *being*.
Being able to just *be* is what I call freedom.  Most peole have been
conditioned to be uncomfortable with their Cosmic Self so that they
can not just be.  They fear this freedom of the Self because they have
never learned how to love their true selves.  Their dream worlds have
been so suppressed that they have difficulty even day dreaming in fear
that their thoughts might lead them to a place which is radically
different from the one they inhabit.

       Meditating on the web of nature has been a source of hope for
me in some of my darkest times.  But in New England the trees are not
very healthy.  Acid rain from the pollution of industrial and auto
emissions has caused many trees to suffer and die.  Escaping into the
wonders of nature is no escape.


                                        Lover of Freedom,
                                        Neutopia



PS In order to get a lower phone rate, I need the number of where you
will be so that I can tell the phone company the number before hand.
How would Saturday at 12:00pm here, 7:00pm there be for you?















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From: [e-mail] (Doctress Neutopia)
Newsgroups: alt.wedding,alt.religion.sexuality,alt.magick.sex,alt.cyberpunk,alt.cyberspace
Subject: Geertjan and Doctress Neutopia
Date: 9 Oct 1994 18:10:15 GMT
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